DUST Search - The reason tanks are viewed as "OP"

Borne Velvalor wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

Divu Aakmin wrote:

If tanks aren't OP then please admit Swarm is trash. Can barely scratch the paint of militia tanks dumping 6 standard rockets and tossing a grenade if they have any passive rep (militia rep.)

I launched 3 volleys with a double damage modded CBR7 at an Armor Tank, he was almost dead as he activated his hardeners, if I'd of chucked a flux first he would've been done, or had better swarms. They're not trash, but players fight tanks with hardeners on. With the dual hardener setup you can run it near indefinitely.

I mean one ridiculous fit for a Gunnlogi is 2x Hardener, 1x Light Booster, 1x Armor Hardener and 1x Rep.

You run the Shield Hardener, get the next one going the moment it runs out, then due to you having 10 seconds between them (if you've got max skills and running complex), put your armor hardener on, let them eat a little into it, pop your shield hardener on and hit the light booster, your booster makes the shield recharge delay non existent and you rep through the incoming damage.

Only way you're being pushed back is if 4-5 proto avs push you or another tank.

Even more ridiculous: field a 150k Gunnlogi with 3 Enhanced Shield Hardeners and cycle them literally forever with no downtime. Why risk a few Forge Gun rounds at the right time popping you?

Also, 2 Complex actually have 15 seconds downtime every 60 seconds.


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Jason Pearson 3554	Posted - 2013.12.21 23:49:00 - [1] - Quote More than one hardener. Also, why is it I keep hearing from AVers "Tanks are OP, I've used them" and tell me they've only used dual hardeners? Nerf the ability to place more than one hardener, or make them affect eachother (having two on a tank reduces their effectiveness massively, even if only one is active) and you'll fix a major problem. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3556	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:15:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: I've never fit dual hardners on my tanks since 1.7 I honestly didn't even think there was a need too, since the first one already offers 60% resistance. Your argument falls apart there. Nope, it doesn't fall apart, what do you do when your hardener runs out? You either take cover/run away, or have no AV hitting you. Dual hardeners allows you to keep the 60% running constant, I've done it, for ***** and giggles on a CRU tank, killing people when blues spawn to provide cover fire and should they both run out I activate an Armor hardener and take cover, it's ridiculously broken. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3560	Posted - 2013.12.22 00:37:00 - [3] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: and then you realize that I have triple stacked complex damage mods on my railgun. I have 6 shots before overheat. 1450x1.87=2711.5 per shot Lets just say I overheat it so all six shots. that's 16,269 damage coming your way. 9,761 after your hardener is applied. still more damage than even the brickiest brick tank can withstand. Oh. and I'm not even to advanced rails yet(Missiles specialized) I just kind of built that for shiggles, but after basically 3 shotting everything except installations, I'm putting points in. Erm, 1.87. are you sure? Anyways, with a single hardener I can handle a single hardener with ease, two I have to dodge a little more, with a second hardener I shrug off two with no issue, and three isn't as bad as you think it is, and then it leaves you open to a return rail shot, you'll be two shotted before you can react. In terms of waves of opportunity, dual hardeners break that idea. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3562	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:18:00 - [4] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Good catch. I just realized it's 1.73 I screwed up the stacking penalty (30% first mod, 26 next 17 on the third totaling at 73% increase additively) so, revised damage: (1450x1.73)x6=15,051 with overheating I've been informed resistances work like this: You take the values of the resistance and then take from that the remain percent of damage, then for your next resistance, apply the stacking penalty and then remove the remaining percent of damage from that, then you multiply these together, the remaining out of 1 is the total resistance you have. Am not good at maths and Musta Tornius says he's not an expert either, but let's try this 60%, remaining 40% 600.87=52.2% remainder 47.8% 0.400.478=19.12% Damage, leaving 80.88% resists Now if I'm right, despite the unlikelihood of that being the case, your damage per shot is 479.6252, multiplied by 6 that's 2877.7512, while these hardeners are active, which means by the time you've overheated against my build, which is 2600 shields and 1200 armor iirc (not near a PS3 to check) you'd have eaten into my armor and left me with 1000 Armor due to the fact I run an Armor Hardener as well, it wouldn't kill me, even without the armor hardener. And since most builds with hardeners run a booster, the moment you stop firing I hit my booster and it bypasses the recharge delay, so now I'm gaining around 160 shields a second, you're overheated, I'm still running hardeners and now I'm away. If I had one hardener on, you might win, with two I'll survive, ofcourse that's if I did the maths correctly, can someone else do it? Q_Q King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3562	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:24:00 - [5] - Quote Divu Aakmin wrote: If tanks aren't OP then please admit Swarm is trash. Can barely scratch the paint of militia tanks dumping 6 standard rockets and tossing a grenade if they have any passive rep (militia rep.) I launched 3 volleys with a double damage modded CBR7 at an Armor Tank, he was almost dead as he activated his hardeners, if I'd of chucked a flux first he would've been done, or had better swarms. They're not trash, but players fight tanks with hardeners on. With the dual hardener setup you can run it near indefinitely. I mean one ridiculous fit for a Gunnlogi is 2x Hardener, 1x Light Booster, 1x Armor Hardener and 1x Rep. You run the Shield Hardener, get the next one going the moment it runs out, then due to you having 10 seconds between them (if you've got max skills and running complex), put your armor hardener on, let them eat a little into it, pop your shield hardener on and hit the light booster, your booster makes the shield recharge delay non existent and you rep through the incoming damage. Only way you're being pushed back is if 4-5 proto avs push you or another tank. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3564	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:38:00 - [6] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Divu Aakmin wrote: If tanks aren't OP then please admit Swarm is trash. Can barely scratch the paint of militia tanks dumping 6 standard rockets and tossing a grenade if they have any passive rep (militia rep.) I launched 3 volleys with a double damage modded CBR7 at an Armor Tank, he was almost dead as he activated his hardeners, if I'd of chucked a flux first he would've been done, or had better swarms. They're not trash, but players fight tanks with hardeners on. With the dual hardener setup you can run it near indefinitely. I mean one ridiculous fit for a Gunnlogi is 2x Hardener, 1x Light Booster, 1x Armor Hardener and 1x Rep. You run the Shield Hardener, get the next one going the moment it runs out, then due to you having 10 seconds between them (if you've got max skills and running complex), put your armor hardener on, let them eat a little into it, pop your shield hardener on and hit the light booster, your booster makes the shield recharge delay non existent and you rep through the incoming damage. Only way you're being pushed back is if 4-5 proto avs push you or another tank. Even more ridiculous: field a 150k Gunnlogi with 3 Enhanced Shield Hardeners and cycle them literally forever with no downtime. Why risk a few Forge Gun rounds at the right time popping you? Also, 2 Complex actually have 15 seconds downtime every 60 seconds. With full skills? Man I'm useless at remembering things, need my PS3 beside me to have the numbers in my face, still you won't notice it lol and aye three always work even better, it's just so broken xD King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3565	Posted - 2013.12.22 01:49:00 - [7] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Some tanks are fitting Dmods. Some dual hardeners. Some both (if you're armor) Tanks are still killing the crap out of tanks. I don't see the problem? The problem? Infantry don't have a chance. Look around, any tanks dying are either facing numerous AV at once, or haven't fitted dual hardeners. The idea for this new attempt at balancing Vehicles was "Waves of Opportunity", where we would push for a small amount of time and then fall back for a little while, but that idea is broken, because we can run two hardeners for a minute and then have a tiny cooldown, and we shrug off AV when it's activated anyways. That's the problem, this game isn't meant to be balanced around tanks, it needs to take all viewpoints into account, if necessary place Damage Mods and Hardeners in the same bucket and only allow you to use one of each. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3574	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:37:00 - [8] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Some tanks are fitting Dmods. Some dual hardeners. Some both (if you're armor) Tanks are still killing the crap out of tanks. I don't see the problem? The problem? Infantry don't have a chance. Look around, any tanks dying are either facing numerous AV at once, or haven't fitted dual hardeners. The idea for this new attempt at balancing Vehicles was "Waves of Opportunity", where we would push for a small amount of time and then fall back for a little while, but that idea is broken, because we can run two hardeners for a minute and then have a tiny cooldown, and we shrug off AV when it's activated anyways. That's the problem, this game isn't meant to be balanced around tanks, it needs to take all viewpoints into account, if necessary place Damage Mods and Hardeners in the same bucket and only allow you to use one of each. A chance to kill infantry? They do that just fine. A chance to kill tanks? I pop tanks just fine when I've lost my 2 tanks for the match and forge people from rooftops. A chance to win games? They're the only ones who can do that. 15 seconds is far from "tiny" and people still haven't adapted to the fact that AV is supposed to be used in CONJUNCTION with vehicles. not solodolo. Infantry do their thing and vehicles finally have a thing to do. It seems to me I'm going to argue with everything you post on this forum. Let's look at why I know that running this hardener is ridiculous. First, read above on my attempt at maths with the Railgun with triple damage mods, running two hardeners you can survive that ridiculous amount of damage and stomp the tank and continue driving along totally fine. Next let's look at my experiences. Running a two hardener with armor hardener setup means you're pretty much unkillable constantly, and 15 seconds is a tiny window in comparison to the minute you get on shields, and the fact you can negate that with one more shield hardener, or do what I do and run an armor hardener so even with my shields down I can sit there and tank damage. Me and Pegasis were running a two s hardener 1 a hardener with CRU setup on Line Harvest in a Domination. Pegasis rolled up to alpha, you know, the one in the crate, put his tank against the crate and put a hardener on the moment AV came to him, he sat there until the MCC shields had finished, even then he only moved due to the fact a rail tank turned up and he couldn't go into dual hardeners due to the other being in cooldown. I activated both and killed the guy, and we just continued stomping. I didn't move from my spot after that and just continued dropping Infantry despite a lot of AV coming my way. No, it's not meant to be used solely with vehicle support, it's meant to be effective against vehicles, and it is, when they have the opportunity to do so, right now they don't have the opportunity because I have a mintue to tank and escape, and then can still reduce damage to armor by 40% Anybody who runs a tank and can tell me that this is fine and it's the way it should be is a ******* moron, I mean really, it's just sad that you need to defend a crutch that's blatantly broken and the reason tanks don't die. I rarely run this setup due to the fact it's OP and doesn't give me that little thrill you get when you're facing a skilled AVer or tank, you simply cycle hardeners or activate them both for a ridiculous amount of resistance. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3574	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:14:00 - [9] - Quote Naaaaaailed it. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3574	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:31:00 - [10] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Naaaaaailed it. what is everyone coming clean tonight? Wot? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.